Comments on solo discussion: Dear Parents of school-aged children,

And then when they think they're great because it'...

2006-07-01T02:52:00.000Z

And then when they think they're great because it's so easy to get printing working with CUPS and so easy to browse the web with Firefox, install OpenBSD or NetBSD.

Well, I'm twelve, run an iBook G4, a couple Debian...

2006-07-01T02:15:00.000Z

Well, I'm twelve, run an iBook G4, a couple Debian boxes, and do some coding. Not much of that razmatazz Photoshop or Flash.

I think its a great idea!

2006-07-01T02:09:00.000Z

I think its a great idea!

Come on, if HW is supported by linux, toinstal Lin...

2006-06-30T22:07:00.000Z

Come on, if HW is supported by linux, to
instal Linux is faster and easier than
Windows - have done both myself.

There is nothing wrong with "ease of use" computin...

2006-06-30T21:03:00.000Z

There is nothing wrong with "ease of use" computing. Wake up man, today's tech innovations are all about separating the end-user from the burden of prerequesite technical knowledge. I'm referring to the prerequesite knowledge which often prohibits the casual user from getting maximum enjoyment or immediate results out of their devices, programs, or services.

There will always be the people that want to have control over every last aspect of something, but the majority actually goes out of there way to avoid having to deal with the details of things; that's what makes the newer technology so easy to embrace for them. The children and adults that are genuinely interested in gaining "real" computer skills don't have to be pushed into learning them, they will pursue it on their own.

I like it better this way. More IT jobs for the r...

2006-06-30T20:48:00.001Z

I like it better this way. More IT jobs for the rest of us. The smart kids still learn how their stuff works, but now all the dumb kids can still get to MySpace.

So instantly the question becomes: should I teach...

2006-06-30T20:48:00.000Z

So instantly the question becomes: should I teach my children the in's and out's of computers, by making them suffer with (as you yourself claim) non-user-friendly software, or should I teach my children through the existing channels (university, college, etc.) the "cool" stuff behind computers.

A 3-year old kid who can install Dungeon Siege (and cannot read the installation instructions) is still a smart kid. Besides, at three years of age, it's much more fun to play Dungeon Siege, than program a QT environment, or develop his own sockets, or for that matter, figure out how to get the X-server running!

My opinion: leave Linux to the computer-programmer-lovers, and let the kid learn the fun stuff, the stuff those computer-programmers make!

"These days, everything is too easy. Installing yo...

2006-06-30T20:37:00.002Z

"These days, everything is too easy. Installing your operating system takes under 1 hour (in most cases), almost all of your hardware is automatically detected and supported but when it isn't, there's windowsupdate. Installing applications often requires 3 clicks of the next button and nothing more. Updating your system requires a visit to a website and a reboot or two. Its too easy."

Well, shouldn't it be easy? Why should it take an hour and complex calculations to install a simple app? I've nothing against learning the ins and outs of an operating system. The purpose of a computer to get complex and mundane tasks done quickly and easily and not the other way around. It's not about working harder, it's about working smarter.

It is a little ridiculous to say that windows is t...

2006-06-30T20:37:00.001Z

It is a little ridiculous to say that windows is too easy to use, no operating system can be “too easy” they can be “too restrictive”… but not too easy. The major problem with linux (and arguably one of its strengths) is that the operating system is, in most cases, not user friendly and forces you to work with the command line. Why would anyone want to spend time fighting with that stuff? It’s better to use those "easy" installs and focus on learning something less arcane?

"These days, everything is too easy. Installing yo...

2006-06-30T20:37:00.000Z

This is a great idea, although depending on how mu...

2006-06-30T20:36:00.000Z

This is a great idea, although depending on how much of a challenge/learning experience you want for your kids it might be worthwhile to choose a more difficult distribution. Something like Gentoo that would force them to actually get their hands dirty just to get everything working the way they want.

I've used all the most popular distributions both professionally and as a hobby, and I have to say that I learned the most by far about Linux from using Gentoo.

Of course if they're not the sort of kid that likes to take things apart to see how they work, Ubuntu might better.

If/when I ever have kids, I think I'll probably have to take a similar approach.

I couldn't agree with you more than what you are s...

2006-06-30T20:29:00.000Z

I couldn't agree with you more than what you are saying. Parents only say their kids is good with computers because they use it more than they do is like saying my kid is the prettiest kid in the world eventhough s/he could be downright ugly.

Just because someone uses a computer doesn't mean they know how to fix a problem, installing viruses and spyware without knowing, etc...

I grew up on DOS and when Windows 95 came around I learned Windows, and got to know things. Now I know Linux (not to say I'm an expert) and I know Mac OS 9/X. Just because a kid can click a few things qualifies them as an expert in their parents' eyes then maybe the parent is just computer illiterate.

How true. I grew up using a Commodore 64 then a 3...

2006-06-30T20:28:00.000Z

How true. I grew up using a Commodore 64 then a 386 25mhz/8Mb/20Mb hd (yes that is MB not GB). No kid today who is a "computer whiz" whould be able to figue out those beasts.

I totally agree with your proposal to get a second system to let the kiddies learn technology for real instead of the bumper car/training wheels way they do with Windows.

However, bank account permitting, I would suggest having them build one from parts, I always seem to learn something new with each system I build.

I'm a 28 year old dude... running XP and Vista bet...

2006-06-30T20:26:00.000Z

I'm a 28 year old dude... running XP and Vista beta 2 on a dual boot system. A true tinker'er.

Years ago, I installed linux (redhat) that came with a book (bible) about (preaching) the joys of linux. What a mess. The entire process took days, and I was never truly satisfied with the end result.

I decided to give Ubuntu a whirl yesterday. The whole process took under an hour - including re-partitioning my harddrive, and making a few adjustments to some settings. I was impressed!

Besides the whole partition setup and the way that "volumes" are handled, there isn't much in the way of learning curve. You burn the CD, boot from it, and install...

Good call! Linux is the wave of the future, after ...

2006-06-30T20:24:00.000Z

Good call! Linux is the wave of the future, after Vista takes a dive like Millenium Edition did.

I agree that teaching your children how to use Lin...

2006-06-30T20:21:00.001Z

I agree that teaching your children how to use Linux can definitely help them in the long run and it can be more than just a box that goes to cartoonnetwork.com or yugioh.com. Everyone may not agree but I want to get my children using Linux because I want them to get hands on and dirty with what they are doing with the computer. I want them to be able to think about what they are doing and be able to apply that to what they want to do. Of course them being able to "think" isn't based off of whether they know Linux or not but it is one step of many.

As for a list of a couple distros to look at:
Edubuntu or maybe Debian Jr and be sure to throw in Frozen Bubble!!

I started with Windows 95 way back..I used 98, 200...

2006-06-30T20:14:00.000Z

I started with Windows 95 way back..I used 98, 2000 and XP when it came out. The only reason that I know a great deal (too much, sometimes) about computers is due to using a crappy computer for gaming: I tried to eek out the highest performance I could, and that caused me to learn much more about how computers work. Now, at the age of 17, I can work just as easily in any OS as I can in Windows, though my choice is OS X (nice GUI and UNIX base).

I agree. Kids have it too easy. I've also taken al...

2006-06-30T20:13:00.000Z

I agree. Kids have it too easy. I've also taken all the ball bearings out of my son's bicycle wheels.

I see this as comparable to the modern state of ca...

2006-06-30T20:12:00.001Z

I see this as comparable to the modern state of cars. Even a decade or so ago, you weren't necessarily considered savvy if you knew a bit about the details of your car's inner workings and something about diagnosing it yourself. Modern technology has removed the need for the average person to know how their car works, but it has also made it harder for the average person to learn how to repair their own car. The things are just that much more complicated under the hood than they used to be.

That said, modern cars run well. Modern computers, on the other hand, will run like bloated crap unless you know a little bit about working with one on a more technical level. But I don't think that means everyone should have intimate knowledge of computers - it simply isn't for everyone.

Gmail is beta you can't set up a mail account ther...

2006-06-30T20:12:00.000Z

Gmail is beta you can't set up a mail account there

Good way to promote linux in general is to just us...

2006-06-30T20:08:00.000Z

Good way to promote linux in general is to just use it. A lot of people like myself have a hard time with it, however, as once we get it installed we don't know what to do. Nice article however.

www.bookscholarship.com

Actually, the ease of use you are describing IS Ub...

2006-06-30T20:05:00.000Z

Actually, the ease of use you are describing IS Ubuntu Linux. If you want them to learn something, have them install Linux From Scratch, or gentoo.

Just get the kids MS Visual Studio Express Edition...

2006-06-30T20:04:00.000Z

Just get the kids MS Visual Studio Express Editions (FREE), and teach them to program in windows and then evolve them into linux.

What does it matter? If they can use the computer ...

2006-06-30T20:03:00.000Z

What does it matter? If they can use the computer then *gasp* they have computer skills. They need to use the command line except for specific reasons. And, if they did know to use it, they would screw the computer up.

What's wrong with making computers easier on the user? Are you just jealous because you've had to suffer through something the next generation won't?

yeap ... teach a hardway ... install Linux :-)

2006-06-30T20:01:00.000Z

yeap ... teach a hardway ... install Linux

:-)